L&HA: How did you get into insurance marketing?
TDL: I started out as a part-time insurance agent in 1996. I found out I didn't like insurance as much as I liked marketing. Once you have exhausted your warm market and alienated all the people who love you, the hard part is learning to generate your own leads. I then took a job in lead generation and marketing. I met thousands of agents and listened to their triumphs and sob stories. I decided if the day ever came that I wasn't working for this company I would go out on my own. As it turned out, that company got dissolved, and little by little I grew a business.

L&HA: Tell us about The Grouchy Marketing Lady.
TDL: I work with about 25,000 financial advisors and insurance agents ranging from property and casualty to life-only sales people, annuity-only, and viaticals. You name it; I've got them on my list. I find people these agents can connect with to grow their business, and I find the weak spots in their marketing systems. I consult and I educate. I see myself as an expert in finding experts. I'm like a general practitioner in marketing. I can look at your marketing and see where the problem is. But if it's a tumor, I am going to put it to the brain surgeon. I have identified the best people in psychology, customer relationships, and social media, for example. I bring those people on, do webinars with them, form a joint venture if they had a good product or service, and present them to my list.

L&HA: Is prospecting tough for most agents?
TDL: Most corporations put guys into the field having taught them everything about how to close the sale but nothing about keeping a pipeline full. Put these agents in a room, and they can close eight out of 10. The weak spot is lead generation. If you learn to generate your own leads and grow your own warm circle, you are much better off. The guys that get that make a lot of money. No matter how many degrees they have or how many alphabet letters after their name, at the heart of it, they are marketers. If you think and act like a marketer, the rest will follow.

L&HA: Purchased leads are quick and easy. How good are the sources?
TDL: I believe online leads are frequently a rip-off. The numbers of lead companies and leads don't square with the number of people shopping online for insurance. If you want to purchase online leads, make sure the company can answer your questions. If they can't, they are probably scamming you.

L&HA: How do you help agents generate their own leads?
TDL: It's a numbers game, but now more than ever, it's the relationships you develop that are going to get you more and more referrals. We work with lead generation experts like Bill Cates, Sid Walker, and Bill Broich. To help agents improve the profitability of their agency, we partner with Peter Vessenes; for social media, Shama Hyder.

L&HA: Can agents get new referrals through the Internet?
TDL: With the emergence of Twitter, Facebook, Myspace and other social media, demographics are shifting. People in their 30s, 40s and 50s are starting to use the Internet more to get to know you before they will do business with you. People today are picky and cautious. When you build a presence on the internet it will shore up your credibility.

L&HA: What do you recommend for Internet marketing today?
TDL: The number one mistake insurance agents make is stopping at, "I want prospects in this zip code, with this much money, and with 2.5 children." Agents need to take a step back and uncover their personal niche. What are they doing when they aren't thinking about insurance? Where do they go? Where are they on the Internet? Are they game players? Do they bowl? On Facebook you can build a following of people who are likely to buy your products or services. For annuities, you already know you want people over 55, with disposable income they can part with, who own their own home or two homes. Now find common points of interest. If you love to go on cruises, perhaps your clients do, too. You could start a vacation and travel group and invite all your clients, potential clients, seminar attendees, and whoever else to join. Make a group, make it open, and put up interesting articles. The key thing is to post regularly, at least once a week. Likewise with blogs, it's not effective to say, "I've got the latest life insurance policy. It's AAA-rated." Rather than sell a product, demonstrate you are the expert who can help them.

L&HA: Are traditional media still useful?
TDL: We're seeing the collision of new technology with traditional methodologies. Direct mail still works, but the key is refinement of the list. Email is not as effective as it used to be, but if you seem like an approachable, honest, hardworking person people are going to gravitate to you. Again, know your niche. New techniques like PURLS personalize email. If you know John owns a Chevrolet, your email can say, "Hey, John, I know you are a Chevy enthusiast."

L&HA: How can agents learn more about your offerings?
TDL: Agents can go to www.grouchymarketinglady.com and download lots of material on lead generation. They can check my blog or attend a webinar. If something really interests them, they should call me. For a fee, I do consultations. I look at every piece of marketing they have and what they don't have. I map my recommendations, and if needed I can connect them with a specialist, like a copywriter or social media manager. For agents who are interested in doing radio and TV or video, I have people on my faculty. Another source for info is www.squidoo.com. Search for Tammy de Leeuw to find my lenses (articles).

L&HA: How did you get the name "Grouchy?"
TDL: Someone at a leads company told me I was the grouchiest person he had ever spoken to. I'm not really grouchy; anyone who knows me will tell you. He wasn't used to being asked hard questions.

I see myself as the marketing detective. I find what's wrong and a way to fix it. When you know how to generate leads, it's like knowing how to make fire in the wilderness. Your confidence comes across to all your clients and prospects. My organization has done about 25 webinars attended by over 10,000 people. We help agents implement what they learn. That's what I am about, trying to bring better marketing to insurance.

Carolyn S. Ellis

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